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My Recent Posts · (06/01/08

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Hello everyone, it has been a while since I've been on here. I usually post on here and check in from time to time specifically before any flight that I take. I have gotten a lot better at flying and controlling my feelings, I always check in here and am usually reassured before flying...it helps!

Anyway, I am flying Wednesday from Kansas City to New York (LaGuardia). I usually always keep a close eye on the weather leading up to any flight I take. I have checked several different weather websites...everything from the weather channel to local New York tv stations and their weather forecasts. Everything I'm looking at is saying a 50% chance of light rain and a possible thunderstorm. This concerns me for two reasons...

#1 I am nervous to fly and thunderstorms really make me nervous...especially when you are descending and it is cloudy and dark and you can't see anything.

#2 This is a trip for a vacation, we are taking my dad to NY for the first time. If the weather is fine in Kansas City, and there are thunderstorms in the area of our destination (NY, Laguardia) will they hold our flight or delay it? Or will they let us take off considering we are 2 hours and about 20 minutes away hoping that it will clear out?

We are flying Midwest Airlines by the way....I know a 50% chance of rain isn't a lot...but it is still there and it makes it a possibility. My worries are split in half right now...1/2 for safety, the other 1/2 for being delayed and inconvenienced.

Any support and advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Grant

My Recent Posts · (06/01/08

#2 This is a trip for a vacation, we are taking my dad to NY for the first time. If the weather is fine in Kansas City, and there are thunderstorms in the area of our destination (NY, Laguardia) will they hold our flight or delay it? Or will they let us take off considering we are 2 hours and about 20 minutes away hoping that it will clear out?

Boy, Grant, a pilot could surely answer this question better than I can, but I can tell you what happened in a similar situation this weekend when I was flying from Denver to Washington Dulles, with approximately the same flight time (a wee bit more) and storms forecast on the east coast.

We were cleared to take off on schedule, but we had to go into a holding pattern over Louisville because flights were delayed into Dulles due to storms. The captain came over the PA while we were holding, explained the hold, and said, "We were expecting this and put in extra fuel to cover it," which I thought was kind of funny -- aw, captain, you know what fearful flyers are thinking, don't you!

The hold over Louisville lasted about 20 minutes, and the captain said we would probably have to hold again just before our descent into Dulles. Later he came on the PA and said that happily there would be no second hold. So I guess they just play it by ear, depending on what the storms do. They're prepared for anything.

By the time we landed at Dulles, the storms were gone.

My Recent Posts · (06/02/08

Grant,

Leslie's experience is exactly right. Do you ever track flights? Sometimes I find that helpful for that very reason. You can see the radar on the map, and exactly how a plane will truly just "drive" around it, or hold until the weather clears. Planes simply won't land or enter thunderstorms. So it's just a matter of waiting it out or going around them. And the good thing is that t-storms (and rain, for that matter) are not only visible on radar, but also with the naked eye, giving you extra assurance that you won't enter a thunderstorm. (Rain is safe.)

So move that worry all the way over to inconvenience! It's the worst that can happen.

(That said, I of course identify with your fear, or I wouldn't be here. I just had a post about how I totally don't worry and can be very rational when OTHER people fly! haha) But it's TRUE. You're going to be FINE.

Meghan

My Recent Posts · (06/02/08

Being delayed by weather is just kind of par for the course when it comes to air travel. Take ORD for example. If there's bad weather in the area, but not bad enough to close the airport, the ATC adjusts the traffic pattern to reduce the number/frequency of flights that can land. I've had many an evenings of tarmac sitting prior to takeoff on the MD-80, waiting for our spot or a break in the weather.

Expect delays and inconveniences when traveling by air. If you expect them, then you're delighted when things go well but only mildly bemused when they don't. It's amazing how a slight change in our own expectations will produce a huge change in our reactions.

As for safety and weather, it's no biggie.

My Recent Posts · (06/02/08

Hi Grant --

The answer to your question in Reason # 2 is, Both of the Above.

It depends upon how long the storms are expected to last, how widespread they are, how much traffic is inbound to the destination airport, how far away the departure airport is, etc.

Ground delay programs are done by "tier." First tier airports are the closest to the destination. For LGA, these might include DCA, PHL, BDL, BOS, etc. Second tier would be slightly farther away, and so forth.

Often, higher tier departures are released to the destination, while lower tiers are held on the ground. Again, it depends upon the particular situation.

And -- there can be some "playing by ear," as Leslie says. Ferocious-looking storms can dissipate amazingly rapidly (sometimes), and delays that had been anticipated in fact never occur.

In any case, there will be a lot of folks looking out for you: First and foremost, your flight crew (who, after all, are strapped to the same airplane that you are), but also your dispatcher, air traffic control, and the flow control center near Washington, D.C.

So, enjoy the ride. You'll be fine.

Cheers.

Steve

My Recent Posts · (06/02/08

Leslie --

Business trip? Or Mileage Run? (Just being nosy.)

Steve

My Recent Posts · (06/02/08

OneAnt -

Good philosophy. I wish more people had it.

Cheers.

Steve

My Recent Posts · (06/02/08

Thank you guys for all the responses...it really helps! So far today they have upped the chance of rain and Thunderstorms in the NY area about the time we are to arrive (1:30 EST). 70% chance now....

I will try to relax and take it in stride....I hope we at least take off on time from Kansas City and try to find our way through the storms because again, half of my concern is being delayed and losing some time on our vacation!

Here is another question....do any particular airlines get priority? I am flying Midwest...it isn't American or United...one of the big ones, so would it get bumped or shoved to the back of the line if delayed?

Thanks,

Grant

My Recent Posts · (06/03/08

Hi again Grant --

Traffic priority is first-come, first served, for the most part. The particular airline should have nothing to do with it.

Having said that --in some circumstances, dispatchers can petition Air Traffic Control for priority handling of certain flights. For example, if there are delays going into Airport XYZ, and Air Apparent has an international flight inbound to XYZ, which originated 10 hours ago when conditions were somewhat different, and doesn't have a lot of extra fuel on board, this particular flight may be 'bumped" to the front of the line. Presumably, another Air Apparent flight would, in turn, be moved to a lower priority. Ideally, it would be a shorter flight which originated while the delay conditions were already known, and was fueled accordingly.

Enjoy your trip tomorrow. You'll be just fine. Let us know how it all turns out.

Cheers.

Steve

My Recent Posts · (06/03/08

Leslie --

Business trip? Or Mileage Run? (Just being nosy.)

Mileage run (blush). With United's current Double-Elite-Qualifying-Miles promotion, I figured this is my big chance to make Premier Executive, UA's mid-tier elite level. I've only ever been the lowest level, Premier, and could never break through that Premier Exec barrier (50,000 flown miles in a calendar year). But this DEQM promotion is my big chance ... I'm a contender!

So I booked DEN-IAD-DEN for three consecutive Saturdays just before the promotion ends on June 15. Last Saturday was the first of the three. I'm gonna make it this year, I will! (Must thank AA and Delta for doing it first; United was just following their lead.)

I wanted to comment on what OneAnt said because I think it is a great point, and I've been thinking about it:

Expect delays and inconveniences when traveling by air. If you expect them, then you're delighted when things go well but only mildly bemused when they don't. It's amazing how a slight change in our own expectations will produce a huge change in our reactions.

I agree completely. Even on these mileage runs, I don't expect things to go smoothly. I take a small overnight bag, minimally packed, just in case I get stranded in DC during a run.

It really hit home last week when I had to make an unexpected trip to IAD for work -- fly out Tuesday, meet with some colleagues in Maryland on Wednesday, and fly back Wednesday evening. Because I booked so late, there were no nonstops available and I had to change planes in Pittsburgh. Well, the PIT-IAD flight got canceled. It was the last flight of the evening so I ended up spending the night in Pittsburgh and taking the next flight to IAD the next morning.

Now, this could've been cause for a lot of stress, but because I've come to embrace OneAnt's philosophy -- expect problems during air travel -- it was really only a little blip, a nonevent, in an otherwise successful trip. United put us stranded travelers up at the airport Hyatt, I notified my point of contact in MD that I'd be late, and that was it. It's sort of reflective of something Tom teaches in the SOAR course -- flying is only as bad as we make it. Similarly, many of the problems that crop up during air travel are only as bad as we make them. A night at the Hyatt certainly isn't the end of the world.

Sorry to hijack Grant's thread! And I don't mean to imply that some travel-related problems aren't truly stress-inducing (JetBlue's fiasco back in February 2007, when the airline stranded thousands of passengers for days with no aid, comes to mind). But I wanted to emphasize that OneAnt is absolutely right, and usually it's best just to roll with whatever happens.

(Quick caveat for biz travelers: If you're traveling on business and your delay is going to cause a problem for your company, call your company's travel agency. Corporate travel agencies have access to a ton of tools that regular travelers don't and can usually work something out -- get you on another airline, if that's what it takes. Many new business travelers don't know that they have a corporate travel emergency line that exists just for that purpose.)

My Recent Posts · (06/04/08

Well it's Wednesday and there were delays like crazy in the NYC area. I hope all went well for you. Visibility was worse than the turbulence. We were on the ground for an hour due to JFK shutting down one runway.

I wish all my business passengers thought as OneAnt! They are the ones who can give me the most trouble. Just remember, delays are not the fault of your friendly flight attendant. LOL

My Recent Posts · (06/10/08

Yes....we were delayed out of Kansas City, but only by about an hour and 15 minutes or so. We arrived into New York at around 2:20ish and we were originally supposed to get in around 1:30. So we made up some time in the air. It was a rather smooth flight considering what the radar looked like before we left. Our flight from Boston to Kansas City last night was rather smooth as well. Flying is getting easier for me but I still like to check in here from time to time and I will always post for some encouragement before my trips that involve flying!

Thank you for all your encouragement everyone....the trip worked out just fine and was lots of fun!

Grant

My Recent Posts · (06/10/08

Glad it went well for you, Grant!

Meghan

My Recent Posts · (06/10/08

Hi Grant --

I'm glad things went well for you.

And yes -- please keep posting when you need some encouragement before flying. You'll certainly get it here!

Cheers.

Steve

My Recent Posts · (06/20/08

Author	Comment
Grant in Wichita	Need some support...flying Wednesday	Lead	[-]
Posts: 19 (06/01/08 18:41:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Hello everyone, it has been a while since I've been on here. I usually post on here and check in from time to time specifically before any flight that I take. I have gotten a lot better at flying and controlling my feelings, I always check in here and am usually reassured before flying...it helps! Anyway, I am flying Wednesday from Kansas City to New York (LaGuardia). I usually always keep a close eye on the weather leading up to any flight I take. I have checked several different weather websites...everything from the weather channel to local New York tv stations and their weather forecasts. Everything I'm looking at is saying a 50% chance of light rain and a possible thunderstorm. This concerns me for two reasons... #1 I am nervous to fly and thunderstorms really make me nervous...especially when you are descending and it is cloudy and dark and you can't see anything. #2 This is a trip for a vacation, we are taking my dad to NY for the first time. If the weather is fine in Kansas City, and there are thunderstorms in the area of our destination (NY, Laguardia) will they hold our flight or delay it? Or will they let us take off considering we are 2 hours and about 20 minutes away hoping that it will clear out? We are flying Midwest Airlines by the way....I know a 50% chance of rain isn't a lot...but it is still there and it makes it a possibility. My worries are split in half right now...1/2 for safety, the other 1/2 for being delayed and inconvenienced. Any support and advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Grant
Leslie		#1	[-]
Posts: 1308 (06/01/08 20:03:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	#2 This is a trip for a vacation, we are taking my dad to NY for the first time. If the weather is fine in Kansas City, and there are thunderstorms in the area of our destination (NY, Laguardia) will they hold our flight or delay it? Or will they let us take off considering we are 2 hours and about 20 minutes away hoping that it will clear out? Boy, Grant, a pilot could surely answer this question better than I can, but I can tell you what happened in a similar situation this weekend when I was flying from Denver to Washington Dulles, with approximately the same flight time (a wee bit more) and storms forecast on the east coast. We were cleared to take off on schedule, but we had to go into a holding pattern over Louisville because flights were delayed into Dulles due to storms. The captain came over the PA while we were holding, explained the hold, and said, "We were expecting this and put in extra fuel to cover it," which I thought was kind of funny -- aw, captain, you know what fearful flyers are thinking, don't you! The hold over Louisville lasted about 20 minutes, and the captain said we would probably have to hold again just before our descent into Dulles. Later he came on the PA and said that happily there would be no second hold. So I guess they just play it by ear, depending on what the storms do. They're prepared for anything. By the time we landed at Dulles, the storms were gone. Last Edited By: Leslie 06/01/08 20:06:32. Edited 1 times.
MeghansNerves		#2	[-]
Posts: 65 (06/02/08 04:58:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Grant, Leslie's experience is exactly right. Do you ever track flights? Sometimes I find that helpful for that very reason. You can see the radar on the map, and exactly how a plane will truly just "drive" around it, or hold until the weather clears. Planes simply won't land or enter thunderstorms. So it's just a matter of waiting it out or going around them. And the good thing is that t-storms (and rain, for that matter) are not only visible on radar, but also with the naked eye, giving you extra assurance that you won't enter a thunderstorm. (Rain is safe.) So move that worry all the way over to inconvenience! It's the worst that can happen. (That said, I of course identify with your fear, or I wouldn't be here. I just had a post about how I totally don't worry and can be very rational when OTHER people fly! haha) But it's TRUE. You're going to be FINE. Meghan
OneAnt		#3	[-]
Posts: 644 (06/02/08 06:54:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Being delayed by weather is just kind of par for the course when it comes to air travel. Take ORD for example. If there's bad weather in the area, but not bad enough to close the airport, the ATC adjusts the traffic pattern to reduce the number/frequency of flights that can land. I've had many an evenings of tarmac sitting prior to takeoff on the MD-80, waiting for our spot or a break in the weather. Expect delays and inconveniences when traveling by air. If you expect them, then you're delighted when things go well but only mildly bemused when they don't. It's amazing how a slight change in our own expectations will produce a huge change in our reactions. As for safety and weather, it's no biggie.
Capn Steve		#4	[-]
Posts: 488 (06/02/08 13:59:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Grant -- The answer to your question in Reason # 2 is, Both of the Above. It depends upon how long the storms are expected to last, how widespread they are, how much traffic is inbound to the destination airport, how far away the departure airport is, etc. Ground delay programs are done by "tier." First tier airports are the closest to the destination. For LGA, these might include DCA, PHL, BDL, BOS, etc. Second tier would be slightly farther away, and so forth. Often, higher tier departures are released to the destination, while lower tiers are held on the ground. Again, it depends upon the particular situation. And -- there can be some "playing by ear," as Leslie says. Ferocious-looking storms can dissipate amazingly rapidly (sometimes), and delays that had been anticipated in fact never occur. In any case, there will be a lot of folks looking out for you: First and foremost, your flight crew (who, after all, are strapped to the same airplane that you are), but also your dispatcher, air traffic control, and the flow control center near Washington, D.C. So, enjoy the ride. You'll be fine. Cheers. Steve
Capn Steve		#5	[-]
Posts: 489 (06/02/08 15:36:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Leslie -- Business trip? Or Mileage Run? (Just being nosy.) Steve
Capn Steve		#6	[-]
Posts: 490 (06/02/08 15:37:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	OneAnt - Good philosophy. I wish more people had it. Cheers. Steve
Grant in Wichita		#7	[-]
Posts: 21 (06/02/08 19:30:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thank you guys for all the responses...it really helps! So far today they have upped the chance of rain and Thunderstorms in the NY area about the time we are to arrive (1:30 EST). 70% chance now.... I will try to relax and take it in stride....I hope we at least take off on time from Kansas City and try to find our way through the storms because again, half of my concern is being delayed and losing some time on our vacation! Here is another question....do any particular airlines get priority? I am flying Midwest...it isn't American or United...one of the big ones, so would it get bumped or shoved to the back of the line if delayed? Thanks, Grant
Capn Steve		#8	[-]
Posts: 492 (06/03/08 16:41:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi again Grant -- Traffic priority is first-come, first served, for the most part. The particular airline should have nothing to do with it. Having said that --in some circumstances, dispatchers can petition Air Traffic Control for priority handling of certain flights. For example, if there are delays going into Airport XYZ, and Air Apparent has an international flight inbound to XYZ, which originated 10 hours ago when conditions were somewhat different, and doesn't have a lot of extra fuel on board, this particular flight may be 'bumped" to the front of the line. Presumably, another Air Apparent flight would, in turn, be moved to a lower priority. Ideally, it would be a shorter flight which originated while the delay conditions were already known, and was fueled accordingly. Enjoy your trip tomorrow. You'll be just fine. Let us know how it all turns out. Cheers. Steve
Leslie		#9	[-]
Posts: 1309 (06/03/08 17:56:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Leslie -- Business trip? Or Mileage Run? (Just being nosy.) Mileage run (blush). With United's current Double-Elite-Qualifying-Miles promotion, I figured this is my big chance to make Premier Executive, UA's mid-tier elite level. I've only ever been the lowest level, Premier, and could never break through that Premier Exec barrier (50,000 flown miles in a calendar year). But this DEQM promotion is my big chance ... I'm a contender! So I booked DEN-IAD-DEN for three consecutive Saturdays just before the promotion ends on June 15. Last Saturday was the first of the three. I'm gonna make it this year, I will! (Must thank AA and Delta for doing it first; United was just following their lead.) I wanted to comment on what OneAnt said because I think it is a great point, and I've been thinking about it: Expect delays and inconveniences when traveling by air. If you expect them, then you're delighted when things go well but only mildly bemused when they don't. It's amazing how a slight change in our own expectations will produce a huge change in our reactions. I agree completely. Even on these mileage runs, I don't expect things to go smoothly. I take a small overnight bag, minimally packed, just in case I get stranded in DC during a run. It really hit home last week when I had to make an unexpected trip to IAD for work -- fly out Tuesday, meet with some colleagues in Maryland on Wednesday, and fly back Wednesday evening. Because I booked so late, there were no nonstops available and I had to change planes in Pittsburgh. Well, the PIT-IAD flight got canceled. It was the last flight of the evening so I ended up spending the night in Pittsburgh and taking the next flight to IAD the next morning. Now, this could've been cause for a lot of stress, but because I've come to embrace OneAnt's philosophy -- expect problems during air travel -- it was really only a little blip, a nonevent, in an otherwise successful trip. United put us stranded travelers up at the airport Hyatt, I notified my point of contact in MD that I'd be late, and that was it. It's sort of reflective of something Tom teaches in the SOAR course -- flying is only as bad as we make it. Similarly, many of the problems that crop up during air travel are only as bad as we make them. A night at the Hyatt certainly isn't the end of the world. Sorry to hijack Grant's thread! And I don't mean to imply that some travel-related problems aren't truly stress-inducing (JetBlue's fiasco back in February 2007, when the airline stranded thousands of passengers for days with no aid, comes to mind). But I wanted to emphasize that OneAnt is absolutely right, and usually it's best just to roll with whatever happens. (Quick caveat for biz travelers: If you're traveling on business and your delay is going to cause a problem for your company, call your company's travel agency. Corporate travel agencies have access to a ton of tools that regular travelers don't and can usually work something out -- get you on another airline, if that's what it takes. Many new business travelers don't know that they have a corporate travel emergency line that exists just for that purpose.)
ajabboat		#10	[-]
Posts: 7 (06/04/08 12:49:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well it's Wednesday and there were delays like crazy in the NYC area. I hope all went well for you. Visibility was worse than the turbulence. We were on the ground for an hour due to JFK shutting down one runway. I wish all my business passengers thought as OneAnt! They are the ones who can give me the most trouble. Just remember, delays are not the fault of your friendly flight attendant. LOL "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci
Grant in Wichita		#11	[-]
Posts: 22 (06/10/08 10:12:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes....we were delayed out of Kansas City, but only by about an hour and 15 minutes or so. We arrived into New York at around 2:20ish and we were originally supposed to get in around 1:30. So we made up some time in the air. It was a rather smooth flight considering what the radar looked like before we left. Our flight from Boston to Kansas City last night was rather smooth as well. Flying is getting easier for me but I still like to check in here from time to time and I will always post for some encouragement before my trips that involve flying! Thank you for all your encouragement everyone....the trip worked out just fine and was lots of fun! Grant
MeghansNerves		#12	[-]
Posts: 69 (06/10/08 12:34:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Glad it went well for you, Grant! Meghan
Capn Steve		#13	[-]
Posts: 493 (06/10/08 17:34:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Grant -- I'm glad things went well for you. And yes -- please keep posting when you need some encouragement before flying. You'll certainly get it here! Cheers. Steve
elliesue	expecting delays keep stress levels in check	#14	[-]
Posts: 1 (06/20/08 16:46:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts

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